It's just scary that anywhere this can be considered morally acceptable. It just demonstrates the completely different moral compass we're dealing with here. Imagine how Israel has to cope with 5 million people like this on the door step.

Posted by: Simon at November 20, 2003 12:43 AM

Most Westerners dont know what their up against, their in denial or are leftist PC apologists.

I studied Islam as a prospective convert, and the more I studied the more repulsed and disgusted I became.

Islam is a vile ideology, of war, hatred, opression (or "submition" as muslims call it), authoritarian and totalitarian, several key doctrines confirm this.

1. There are two domains, the domain of Islam, (direct translation) "The Realm of submition (or as muslims translate it Peace, I. E. Pax Islam)," and all countries not ruled by Islamic law, which is called (direct translation) "THE REALM OF WAR!."

2. Jihad IS Holy War! Regardless of what muslim apologist say or westernized muslims say, Islamic theologians (when westerners are not looking) interpret Jihad as the political and social conquest of all lands not ruled by Islamic law! Jihad is NOT a inner spiritual struggle as apologist claim, it is the doctrine of world conquest by Islam.

3. Under Islamic law, only muslims have the right to worship publically (only Mosque are allowed to be built), Jews and Christians must pay a special non muslim tax or risk imprisionment or death. There is no freedom of speech, let alone freedom of worship under islamic law, and if a non-muslim is found talking about his faith to a muslim, its a crime punishable by death. Women are considered (direct translation)"walking genitals," by Islamic law and must be covered head to toe, and only have the value of 2/3s of a man. Secularists and or those of non-abrahamic faiths (ie aethist as far as Islamic law is concerned) have no rights, for anything, and technically deserve only death.

4. And then the dictates of the korran where there are numerous dehumanizing passages about Jews and Christians (let alone those of other faiths) and their deserving nothing but slavery or death as infidels and enemies of "Allah.".

Muslims live by Mohammads example and dictates, and it is the terrorists that are the true muslims, living as their example.

Mohammad was a blood thirsty genocidal dictator, who was a theif and a pedophile and used women as toilet paper. He bullied is way to power, leaving a trail of blood and mayhem. Anyone he couldnt bully or murder he made alliances with only so he could stabb them in the back later, and he did.

Muslims say he was uneducated, I would go one step further and say that he was a charasmatic ignoramous (a kin to David Koresh or Jim Jones), and a half assed plagerist that stole stories that he half heard or changed because he half remebered them, all to serve his own ego, and the korran is evident of that.
Anyone who reads it who doesnt see this themselves, has to have no more than a grade school education or is a blind faith fool, or a leftist apologist.
There are even passages in the korran that the educated muslims and islamic scholars, cant even make sense of in arabic let alone translated in other languages without contrivance and interpolation.

The Korran is rife with oppertunistic and self serving rants of a man who has all the symptoms of bi-polar paranoid schitzophrenia.

One example, "Allah" limited men to four wives, yet after this surah (passage) was given, Mohammed decided he wanted more than four wives,(I think he had like a hundred by the time he died), "Allah" (wink wink nudge nudge) grants Mohammad to be above the rules for the rest of muslims and any lil'o thing his heart desires,in almost those words.

The event described is alot more dispicable and involved the wife of a relative that is still alive and in a loving marriage with her.

And Im sorry, I speak of the "the korran," as if there is such a thing, its not "the Korran," there are like five different korrans, each with its own pronunciation and thus changing the meanings of whole verses and chapters, and only to complicate things, in the 70s they found another korran, totally different from any today, which shows that the korran was developed over several hundred years.

After learning all I had of Islam, needless to say I was put off by the hypocracy and immorality of the "prophet," and his religion, and felt horible that a noble beautiful people who had such a high level of culture before Islam was so soiled and brought so low by such a horrible tyrant, let alone all the peoples they conquered and forced into Islam.

But after 9/11 the final piece of the picture came into focus for me, with all the complacency of all the so called moderate muslims around the world, the gifts of cany even.

Your not a victim if your a semi-rational thinking human being (all semi-rational persons know right from wrong) and your complacent to those terrorist freaks, your just as guilty. Muslims choose to follow mohammad, and and Islamic law, so they are just as guilty in their complacency.

Usama said the american people are complacent in the policies of its government (the dim wit that he and his leftist apologist are, he's confusing the abuses of the multi-national corporations with the US government). No the american people are not "complacent," the policies of the american government is the WILL of the american people.

Even if, all americans may not agree with all the policies of the american government, thats what democracy is all about, compromise, something tyrants and those of authoritarian and totalitarian mind sets know nothing about.

Just like most of German people were complacent in the Holocaust and nazi'ism, at that time, so most muslims were and are complacent in the atrocities of ISLAM!, what makes it worse is we as a world have the example of Nazi Germany.

I find it both hilarious and frightening that the only way muslims can truely practice their religion is to escape Islamic law and run to the the great satan (western democratic civil societies), really they are escaping islam and islamic law for secularism, but most of them are still in denial and are trying to convert the western democracies into Islamic republics.

Many paralels to Nazi'ism, in general practice, are astonishing, but I think even the nazis valued their people, at least as a resource to be used, muslims will kill a muslim just to kill one non muslim.

Its ok (accourding to leftist apologist) for muslims to ethnically cleanse Bosnia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Philipines, Iran, Lebenon, Armenia, the West bank and Gaza, and we have to allow hostile residents within our borders, screw that.

For God sakes they still practice slavery, LEGALLY, accourding to Islamic law.

One day people will wake up and it will be too late, their learing this the hard way in France, Germany and England, Egypt is 45% christian and technically its an islamic republic under Islamic law.

Canada is projected to have a muslim majority by 2020?!?!

Am I paranoid...maybe I've just seen what the future holds, and I dont like it.

Posted by: Rob at February 13, 2004 02:02 PM

i'm sorry, but i fail to see why your critique of islam is in any way congruent with reality.

i am not a 'leftist PC apologist' as you would no doubt call ALL your detractors, given the chance. i am instead a fellow citizen of the world trying to understand the place i live and enjoy it.

i too have read exerpts from the qu'rran (or korran), but in arabic, and your reading seems inherently flawed.

i read it not as a prospective convert, but as a fellow 'follower of the book' seeking to enhance the experince of my own religion. (this is a blanket term used to denote followers of those religions you called abrahamic)

it seems that you are claiming a knowledge of the korran to make yourself sound authoritative. forgive me if i am wrong, if you did approach islam with an open mind and did in fact read the entire korran.
(is this a good time to point out that to truly interpret the korran, one must do so for him or herself, and in the original arabic? if you dont speak arabic and you didnt read the book for yourself, your interpretation is not accurate. part of its meaning is to be found in the effort it takes to read it.)

i am not going to bother to go through each point of yours rebutting them individually. although possible, it seems unecessary.
i will ask a general question, however.

what makes islam

a vile ideology, of war, hatred, opression (or "submition" as muslims call it)

in any way more than christianity or judaism?
you speak as if of religion, but then you use examples from despotic regimes. these regimes are not representative of the teachings of the korran or of islam, but instead represent people abusing whatever power structure they can.
perhaps you feel that america is an example of a christian country in the same way that those dictator led countries of Fundamentalist Islam are muslim.

if so, you have missed the part in the constitutuion that ensures religious fredom. america is a secular country.

the last time we had any example of a fundamentalist christian government in the west we had wars that ranged over decades.

the only christian country that remains in europe or america is the vatican.

oh, and for goodness sake look up 'complacent' and 'complicit' in the dictionary. i may eschew punctuation in favour of speed, but in some cases following the rules of language can be handy. your lack of distinction between the two words is a part of what suggests to me you were educated in anti-semitism by the television.

(no, semites dont have to be jews.)

Posted by: m. hilstone at April 13, 2004 01:21 AM

It is tiring reading through both the ill informed and the pretentious all attempting to put forward a favoured 'political' position. Ultimately USA is a secular nation made up of great diversity with Christianity being the largest and the most practiced religion. While it is true that some attribute Christianity, and only this to the soul of this nation and its development, this ignores the great political tracts that essentially inspired the rebels to mount a War of Independence...and yes I know these great writers and the books they wrote. (Look them them up I'm too tired to try and sound 'clever' and give academic advice) The American puritanical/evangelical streak has largely been contained internatinally by the secular and the pragmatic e.g How do we make more money?

Christianity is not the originator of Western commercial theory and its ideological origins can be traced back beyond Roman times. However, Christianity has played an important part in this nation, as it has in a large number of nations around the world.

I have read the Koran in English and yes, like the Bible, anyone with a working knowledge of quotes and sources can construct an arguement to suit their ends. I have no desire to learn Arabic, there is no cultural malice intended. Arabs make up only a very small part of the overall numbers practicing the religion and ulimately even this continued emphasis is most ethnocentric. (Yes...I know why it should not be translated given that its meant to be the literal words of God)

Please face facts, ultimately any religion relies at its core on faith, without faith there can be no religion. Much like the many strands of evolutionary science faith in one theory or another is mandatory in order to maintain functionalityo matter how scholarly the individual. This is problematic as it one person might devote his/her life to study and the practice of religion only to find an illiterate enthusiastic zealot professing the same faith.

There is nothing in Islam that interests me, neither is there in evangelical Christianity, or Judiasm. I have informed myself, but the freedom of choice as to what I believe is why I feel pleased not to live in a nation where this decision would place my life in danger.

This evening I watched the video of a poor American having his head literally hacked off by a hooded figure who claims to be justified in the eyes of God. From what was translated from the video, should it be accurate, he was killed as an infidel and as revenge. I made myself watch it twice just to make sure that my eyes were not deceiving me. I still fell sick to my very core. This poor man screamed right to the end, but his captors neither cared or faultered in their evil task. If this can be done in the name of a loving God, and the men carrying this out can be seen as heroes...and they are in significant corners, where does it all end.

The US has for decades supported the depostic regimes of the Islamic world, a world hardly united or of one culture, as part of the great game. Largely though in those countries with the worst human rights records have been able to continue to function. Exactly the same things have occurred in Christian South America. Where does it end? Will there be another war in, lets say, Columbia to rescue us all from drug dealing narco-terrorists embedded in the Columbian government. And they are, the US should know as they send military aid there in very large sums to support the right wing death squads. Don't be afraid though Islam is not left out. Turkey, already guilty of one genocide against the Armenians, is well on the way to ethnically cleansing their fellow 'brothers of the faith'of the face of their nation can do so with great sums of American cash. Where does it end?

It ends in the zealots winning and having their day to wreck global destruction. Be they the monsters who are carrying out the terrorist activities in Iraq and all over the world, or the monsters from Washington who sent their military machine there to kill.

I myself reject Islam on both a spiritual level and on an intellectual level, but that is my right as an informed and educated person. It is perfectly acceptable for the same maxim to be applied by someone else to my own religion or any other. I can accept that, and no one need die. I reject any who speak in my name, or try to speak on my behalf, when their actions and words cannot be my own.

I pray for that poor man I watched on the video, and the other two who will most certainly die in the same appallingly barbaric manner. I will pray for the people of Iraq. I will say that the death penalty is a cruel and barbaric death too and that any sickened by this video might view the electric chair and lethal injection differently if they watched it.

I urge all people to approach this situation with calm heads and rationality. In all of this we must not forget our common humanity and that we must all have a commitment to justice. Religion is not a competition, or a recruiting drive. The men who carried out that execution may claim to be devout Muslims, and indeed may have great knowledge of the Koran and pray and fast, but when we forget our humanity what edge of insanity has this faith in religion brought them to.

The Greek word 'idiot' is basically a person not interested in politics. Americans are so ignorant of their arrogant foreign policy that it is sickening. Western Muslims, who live in the liberal democracies of the West and in my country at least are protected by law, refuse to understand that they share nothing with the so called Islamists. They themselves would be the first against the wall in the Islamic Republic if they were not a Islamist like the radical. Yet, I can see no values that I share with the Americans either culturally or philosophically.

I truly hope that Bush 2 is swept from office and that the suffering people of the so called Islamic world , and the third world in general, are supported in their efforts to resist totalitarianism, human rights abuses, and terrorists. Why can we not all help Sudan? Why can we not help the Kurds? Why?

When I read sites claiming they are some kind of authority on religion I feel great pity. Religion should be a private matter and of reflective devotion. There are teachings in my religion which trouble me, and I have expressed this to others. I would only hope that one day those fighting to change Saudi Arabia or Bangladesh have that same opportunity without the consequences they face. I am glad that I do not live in a Muslim nation, however, I am equally thankful that I was not born in the United States of America.

I do not profess superiority, just my preference. I do not require the world to be re-arranged in my preferred image, and neither should "Islam, politicians, or the USA."

We should help the innocent and the good fight the good fight, and this should not require mass invasions. You cannot destroy a civilisation in order to save it. Queen Elizabeth the First did this in Ireland and by the time of the "plantation" under James the First (6th of Scotland) had planted the very seeds of fanaticism that she hoped to destroy. The great massacre of Protestants in the 1640's was Oliver Cromwell opportunity to journey to Ireland with his army to punish those responsible. And with the inhumanity, much like the buthchers he so wished to destroy, brought only misery and injustice.

We must all come together and find true solution based on equitable measures.

ANH

Posted by: Smithy at September 21, 2004 10:46 AM